Ingrid Thompson is the founder of Healthy Numbers. She is an unwaveringly hopeful person and she brings an energy and enthusiasm to everything she does in life.
For pretty much her entire life she has simplified, demystified and taught the complex matters of money and the numbers as applies to business.
Her clients benefit because working with Ingrid helps them achieve the financial mastery that comes from understanding how business works, being able to have confident conversations when it comes to all things money and business decisions are firmly grounded in the numbers in their business.
Ingrid constantly brings fresh insights and new ways of thinking to her business community.
Josh: What is up everybody, Josh Tapp here again and welcome back to the lucky Titan podcast and today we are here with Ingrid Thompson so excited to have her here she is the founder of healthy numbers and honestly, this lady, we’ve been talking for quite a while for this interview, actually, it’s been a lot of fun to get to know her but really just her passion around helping people to understand the numbers in their business and for some of you, you might make a glaze over right numbers are always those things that we’re scared of but I really loved her model, because it was all about numbers are not difficult or complicated it’s how much you spend and how much you make and as long as you’re making more than you spend, you’re great and I love that model. So I’m excited to have her kind of talk through that and help work us through maybe some of those mental blocks, especially as we kind of get past this plateau that we’re all sitting at so Ingrid, say what’s up to everybody, and then we’ll hop in
Ingrid: What’s stopping date, I love that because we never say it it’s not an Australian we say Good day and I do practice like Good Day, so listeners can practice that as well. So yeah, thanks for having me on. Thanks so much for having me on. And I just hope everyone’s still with us. I mean, just because we’re talking about numbers like don’t go stay, I promise, we’re gonna make this fun.
Josh: Yeah, it’ll be it’ll be more fun than than even marketing. So let’s, let’s delve into it. So the very first thing, Ingrid, that I want to I want to talk about that methodology. I know, you showed me the pyramid and I love it. So for those of you who, especially on audio, she had this diagram, it’s basically a pyramid with four levels and they’re like two big mental blocks that help you kind of launch to the top of the pyramid so can you kind of talk through that framework and how you help people in that sense?
Ingrid: Yeah, so it’s a, it’s a really interesting model in terms of how we think about people falling into four categories so that the lowest category or the bottom of the pyramid, if you think about that is a business that’s struggling a business that never looks at the numbers, they lurched from idea to idea, and they avoid having any conversations and the big myth at this level is that people think numbers are hard and then people are either in that next level, or they move to another level, which is the unpredictable level, they have a business that’s unpredictable they look at their bank account, and there’s some money there so they think they’re doing okay and their prices don’t change much, because they’re not really quite sure how to make price changes snd they prefer to listen, when it comes to the conversations, they, they don’t avoid them, they listen, but they’re never really sure what’s happening in a conversation and the difference between these two parts of the pyramid is that there’s this fear and ignorance line, what I call a fear and ignorance line and what happens at people who have you run a business that’s not struggling, is that they’ve got to the point where they start to understand the numbers and what I say to people is, you learned to be a dentist, or you learned to be a hairdresser, or you learn to be the business that you run and you weren’t born that you learned how to be and you can learn how to do numbers so if you learned that craft that you have, you can certainly learn this as well and then there’s the bits consistent businesses so if you think up the pyramid, you’ve got these two levels, and then you’ve got the next level up so you’ve got the third level up, it’s consistent, you know, the business is doing well, they run the report that counts up to state, and I’m doing okay and then we reach what we call a good enough line and that’s what you and I were talking about Josh is that there’s that sort of plateau and that line is the one where we, it’s important to know that it’s okay to want more, it’s okay to totally understand, it’s okay to make your decisions based on data and facts and it’s okay to feel like an equal when it comes to actually making the conversations around money and I hope for the people that are doing that following that, from a visual point of view, I hope I’ve painted that picture well but we sort of go from struggling to unpredictable to consistent, powerful and the two lines we cross is that fear and ignorance line of just numbers can be difficult, but you learned what you’ve learned and you can learn about numbers. You don’t have to be an accountant. You don’t have to get to that level. That’s your accounting school but you know, learning to understand them and then as you say, there’s that plateau where people go, yeah, good enough yeah, I’m doing okay. But there’s actually another level beyond that and it’s okay to be in that level. Yeah, that feels powerful. It feels empowered. It feels confident. Yeah, it’s, it’s more than just okay.
Josh: And I love that because, you know, in our conversation before this, what we were talking about with that is is I mean money is one of those things, you just have to learn once and you just have to understand a few simple things. Once you know those things, you’ll have them forever it’s not like marketing where it’s constantly changing it’s not like, you know, branding or sales or anything. It’s it’s a consistent, simple pattern. If you understand those then your business will grow, and I love that because your your entire business and your being everything you’re about is around let’s break those two lines and if you’re listening to this, you’re at that plateau mark, that’s probably one of the number one reasons why you haven’t been able to get past that point is because you’ve gotten to that subtle line, like just talking about, like, you’ve gotten there and you’ve said, you know, I’m pretty comfortable, right? You know, I want to grow by word, but then you look at your bank statements, and you’re like, well, I’m making enough I’m pretty good. So Ingrid, I do want to ask you, what is really the tipping point that helps you break from that consistency to really thriving?
Ingrid: It is a it is, as you said, it’s a mindset, and it’s okay to want more and I think that’s where you know, what happens to people? What do we think about people who have more? and what would you do with more if you had it? and we talked a little bit about that earlier, in terms of, you know, what stage of life are you at? What would you do with that and you know, for some people, it could be philanthropic for some people, it could be having a bigger impact for some people. You know, when you have more profit, when you have more in your business, when you have greater numbers, you can have the latest equipment, everybody can have the sort of professional training and development that they need, you can have a better team, you can have a bigger team, you know, there’s what would you do with more? Would you set up a foundation? Would you do more community work? Like what would you do if you had more? and, you know, I think it’s that sort of having a bigger picture and being the best that you can be at what you are, so that you know that you can have that greater reach? and that is what helps people get over that line it’s like, what would it What would it what would you do? What would be your legacy? What would be your impact? Yeah,
Josh: yeah. And I love that. I mean, I really think it’s all about positioning in your brain, right? Like where we’re atI know, for me, and we were talking about this, it’s kind of funny that we’re both kind of the same way but for me, every time I get stuck, I feel like I’ve plateaued if I’m there for more than a month, I go hire a new coach, every time because when I hire a new coach, it doesn’t mean my old coach was bad but what it does, it breaks my paradigm makes me spend a lot of money, and allows me to get a new take on it every time my income increases every single time and it’s, it’s been one of the best tools for me and I don’t know if that works for everybody but I would highly recommend it to you, if you’re like sitting there, I don’t know what to do next.
Ingrid: And I would endorse that enormously because you know, this past 12 months, I’ve taken really good stock of what I’m doing and I’ve hired, in fact, three different coaches and one I’m continuing to work with, because that’s the one that’s working best for me and it’s the one I need the most help with, actually, but the other two have shifted my thinking so much around how I do what I do, and really tapping into the passion of what I believe in and it’s not that it wasn’t there but it’s just, you know, when you find new people that challenge your thoughts, you know, I love that Jim Rohn, you know, you are the product of the five people you hang out with and if it’s the same people forever, that just doesn’t work it’s, we constantly need that new way of thinking, you know, the tide comes in, and the tide goes out and it’s different every single time it comes in nature doesn’t operate in the sameness you know, we’ve got a huge tree in our backyard and this year, it is throwing pine scales and seeds all over the place it hasn’t done that for year something’s different this year and that’s what we need in business. You know, what is the trigger? Is it because we had more rain? Is it because we had less rain last year? So what is it in your business? It’s the pattern that you can bring in something that’s different, that can actually shift you above that line and if it’s a different coach, and I’m firmly with you on that Josh, the same coach? No, not the same forever and I certainly I have clients that I kick out of the nest, and I’m really good mommy bird, I’m tossing them out it’s time to go and
Josh: just hope you’re never an empty nester in that sense, right?
Ingrid: Never an empty nester, that’s right. Cuz, you know, nature doesn’t work that way.
Josh: Yeah. And I love that. You know, the way you, you personified that because it was like the tree example you know, it’s, you really did identify what, what is the kicker for you? I know, for me, I can directly tie it to hiring a new coach and I know a lot of people, right, well, I should just stick with one method and I would agree, but I think you get a lot of big points from other people, but then you stay true to what you’re doing you stay true to your model and you focus on that because the fastest way to complication and like you said kind of that was erratic, the, that Skateway your, your, your, our business is inconsistent is when you’re constantly trying to be like a new thing, new thing, new thing. Instead, focus on the model get new intake and for us, it’s I have to spend money so it kind of wakes me up I’ll be honest, I guess it has to be enough. That hurts.
Ingrid: Yes. And I think you know what you said earlier about marketing changes and you know, now we’re seeing this Some new thing, I don’t even know what it’s called everybody’s jumping on instead of LinkedIn and Facebook, there’s some other conversation tool people are using and that’s always going to come and go, but your numbers are going to stay the same, your model is going to stay the same and so you need different people to help you with all the things that are going on in the world but your fundamentals are going to stay the same and that’s where a new coach comes in. It’s where a new training program comes in and it just takes you to a different place a different way of thinking and you know, there’s this beautiful word obliquity, which is that things happen indirectly, that you might set off in this direction, but something happens, it’s a bit like serendipity, you know, it’s that unexpected and, you know, I think that’s when you start to work with someone different and you say, Okay, so what is this person? You know, I need to learn this, but who knows, you might meet someone through that or they might trigger off a thought pattern that just sends you in a different direction now, we can’t ever really know what’s around the corner.
Josh: Yeah. Well, and I love that you bring up that accent so clubhouse is probably the one you’re talking about
Ingrid: the one. Like the word doesn’t stick with me.
Josh: That’s really funny. So I, I got invited to that, like, months and months ago, joined it, forgot about it, I’ll be completely honest. But just today, we had, I got invited to do a room on there. And it was really interesting, because people know I’ve, I’ve kind of opinionated and so it’s it’s kind of funny, because they want me to say something, and I might completely against it sometimes but we went on there and somebody asked me He’s like, so how do you see a clubhouse being like the way to grow your podcast? Is it gonna kill the podcast and everything and it’s gonna come and go that’s how Facebook’s doing that right now people thought Facebook was gonna live forever, they just lost like 30% of their users over a month because of some dumb thing, right. And it’s, it’s crazy to me that people will rely on these platforms and they brought back to me, I had a guy I brought on here Carlisle, and you may not him, but very, very successful guy and he’s like, Josh, you can either be rich, or you can be famous, you can’t be both and I thought that was so intriguing and it really aligns with what you’re talking about Ingrid, you know, is, it’s it’s all about understanding the numbers. It’s all about if you want to be in business, be in business, if you want to be famous, go be famous but everybody who’s in business feels like they have to become famous in order to be successful in business and they don’t go hand in hand, some of the most successful people and make the most non sexy industries H-back. This is the story I was telling him there there’s a guy I know he makes $60 million a year in an H Bag, some type of H Bag builds products for H Bag it’s not it’s not a sexy industry, you’re not going to post on social media I just built a really cool H Bag I people I don’t care, right. So I love that you’re, you’re tapping into that and sharing that so I want to I want to ask you this Ingrid, especially with the people who have plateaued and they’ve said, okay, which direction should I go? What would you recommend for people that feel like they should pivot? Or should they double down on what they’re doing?
Ingrid: It’s such a great question and in fact, yesterday, I was having a coaching session with one of my private clients and she is in that we were looking at some of her numbers and this is where the numbers are so vital so she’s past the basics, she gets that the amount of that comes in is, you know, got an equal amount that comes out and so she’s looking at where her sales, you know, what, who in the last six months, who in the last 12 months that where is the patterns of her sales and just through analyzing this, we discovered that there’s these three customers of hers that doing phenomenal amount of she makes a product and she sells it to them, and then they sell it onto the customers and she said she hadn’t realized that these three were standing out from everybody else until we did this analysis of the last six months and again, you know, she’s somebody who had kind of been doing this but had lost track of doing it so that’s that kind of that those middle two layers, were sort of doing it, but you’re not doing it very well, or you’re doing it but you’re not doing it consistently and so we sent she said, Oh, so the first thing she said to me was, we need to go find more of them and I said Really? Is that exactly what you need to do go find more of them? Or do you pay so much attention to those three, that they go even more gangbusters for what you’re doing? And other people hear about that and find out about that? And then they come looking for you? So that you do double down on what you’ve already got working really well find out who that is working for? Or do you go out and find a bigger market? And I think that’s your question is, and that is when you’ve got the data, you can see that and so then that’s the question, go back to them and see Okay, so what is the better strategy here? Do we analyze using the numbers using the data to analyze and say, is it beneficial for me to go after more of that? Or do I double down and give them more products? Do I give them you know a better range or give them better service do I provide you in store experiences, you know, what do I do with that? So I think, you know, it’s, it’s industry specific, you know, and that’s where when you analyze the data, it gives you the power and having a new coach, having a new perspective is a way to have a look at that so hopefully that answers that question.
Josh: Yeah, that was a fantastic answer, because there really is no set answer the hence why this podcast exists, right? there’s so many different directions you can go but we should focus on one thing, like you said, like, what, what is the thing that is providing the, the income? I know, for me, all of the clients, I’ve worked with one on why we really don’t do a lot of that anymore. But I’m always they get annoyed by how often I say it mI’m like, what is the ROI activity? What is making any money? And we only focus on that and right, okay, but I want to be on clubhouse. I want to be on Instagram and I’m like, Why? You have no money coming from that direction? Why don’t you double down on growing your email list, which you are great at, that is producing income, you know that what’s the ROI activity and so I love that you, you bring that and I think that dovetails really well into your diagram you showed me I love and then we’re coming up to the interview here but I want I want you to cover this because it was such a cool, kind of final piece that I think you could share this is the diagram for the future I can’t remember what is it called.
Ingrid: Yeah, so I just want to say about your coaching program and group coaching because I am such a fan of group coaching because the thing that didn’t happen yesterday in that one on one session with that client is nobody else gets to hear that story unless we share it and and you know that is the huge benefit to being in a group environment where when you hotseat one particular person, then the other 10 people, or 20 people, or 100 people in that group are actually getting the benefit of that story and while not everybody has that exact example, money and data and analyzing works for all of them so you know, that’s, you know, just to your point about group coaching, okay, so with me, if you draw, join me to put the model up is that easier for the visual?
Josh: for those who are watching, I think this will be very, very beneficial to them it’s a very simple, everybody.
Ingrid: It is and so if you’re only if you’re listening, you can do it with me so if we start with a piece of paper, and in the middle of the side, here we have, this is the point of today and in 12 months’ time there is a 12 month time point, it’s going to be here anyway, doesn’t matter what happens, there’s all kinds of things are going to happen and there’s going to be a 12 month point. And we could just go in a straight line or a wavy line between the two points. Alternatively, there is a point where we’re worse off than we currently are right now in the 12 month’s time and if you think about drawing a line that goes, it’s a sort of a red drifty line that goes down towards that future point now, it could be in any environment it could we COVID kilos is a good example of drift. You know, we eat a chocolate bar, and then we have another bag of chips, and we sit on the couch and we don’t go to the gym and it doesn’t happen overnight, we don’t end up with 15 kilos overnight, but we do end up with the extra COVID kilos, or whatever that might be there’s also a point where we would be better off in the future and this is a line that works along decisions and actions, we take actions on the decisions that we make, and we move towards this future better place and right now, today, we are as close as we’re ever going to be to being on any of these lines and what happens in this future place is that these gaps are huge and this is why goals can feel so excruciating and I think this is one of the key things about this model is that when you are here, and you think that’s where you wanted to be, in 12 months’ time, it’s so far away, it feels excruciating but here, it’s the closest you’re ever going to be and if we work along this with decisions and actions, whatever those are, that’s how we end up there are all the alternative is to end up in drift and I think there’s you know, I use this with dentists and dentist users with their patients and I think a lovely analogy for this is, you know, you don’t just clean your teeth once a week for an hour, you clean your teeth a couple of times a day for a short amount of time decisions and actions are small things we do regularly and it’s what gets us to the future we don’t just get to Sunday and give our teeth clean for an hour you know, so thinking about business, what are the small things we do every single day, pay attention to the numbers, pay attention to our clients, run the reports, do the analysis, we know whether it’s small amounts of time, weekly, daily, monthly, it’s that’s what takes us to that place in the future so that that gap between where we are and where we want to be isn’t so huge I think it’s a terrific model I’ll send you a picture of this one if you like Josh.
Josh: Good to watch your private link that in the description as well so people can see because it’s it’s so true I love the tip the decaying teeth example right because we all kind of know you need to have those little habits but the reality is that and I’m not going to say this with brushing your teeth, you should brush your teeth twice a day plus, right? But in business, we feel like, Okay, well, I’ve got to do it daily but sometimes even if you miss, and you’re doing it three or four times a week, that is allowing you to get that upwards progression that people don’t realize, because what typically happens in businesses, we set a goal, we get all excited about it for a week, and then the next week, we miss a day or Okay, well, that goal is stupid, I’m not doing anymore, and we quit and instead of saying, okay, we missed a day, so I’m going to do it the next day.
Ingrid: That’s right, because we get further and further away and this, you know, this isn’t a straight line, either the up line is a wiggly line but what happens when we make decisions when we take actions is that even if we have one or two bad days, and bounce back is better? Because we’re, you know, we’re on that upward trajectory, but that drift that you know, and I think how easily we can drift you know, I love to swim, we go to the beach, where between the flag surface raging, and any minute now we’re outside the flags, because we drift, because something wishes us, you know, and that’ll be life. You know, something knocks us off course, and we’ve drifted out of the flags and so we make that concerted effort to come back in so yeah, I just I think, visually, and thank you for this being a visual podcast, as well as a podcast, podcast but it certainly helps for people to be able to see the visual so.
Josh: yeah, and
Ingrid: I do like that telephone. I love this model. I think this model is magic.
Josh: Yeah, I love it. So we’ll link that in the description as well but you know, Ingrid, we’re already at the end of the interview here so I your questions for you the first one is where can people get access to you and to healthy numbers.
Ingrid: So my, my websites and my internet, my website, healthynumbers.com.au and the very best way to connect personally with me is through LinkedIn. I’m a LinkedIn fan and I have a podcast and I have a book they’re called, so you want to start a business and yeah, so but healthynumbers.com.au is the very best place to find me on LinkedIn personally.
Josh: Love that. So we’ll link those in the description so everybody can connect with you as well and just one final thing for you, Ingrid. So if you could leave one final parting piece of guidance, what would that be?
Ingrid: Get in touch with your numbers just figure those numbers out and whatever they are, they, they can expand and be more and even if you feel like you understand them dig a little deeper, because the more you dig into the numbers, the more they reward you it’s the gift that keeps on giving.